Stephen Goldin author interview.

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The Gold(in) Standard

It's not every author who can boast they co-authored a science fiction novel with E.E. Doc Smith. But Steven Goldin is just such a fellow.

We don't want to make S.G. feel old, but heck, most of us here at the 'Nest were rasied on the Family d'Alembert series in the 70/80s.

He slips into the author's hot seat for an interview with fellow fantasy author, Stephen Hunt.

Having researched the Islamic world for your Arabian 'Parsina Saga' novels, do you have any thoughts on into the current situation in the Middle East and the 11th September?

Steven Goldin There are a number of reasons why I chose to use a Zoroastrian rather than an Islamic model for the series, and one of them is Islam's concept of jihad as something akin to a sacrament.

While most responsible Muslims today back away from this particular principle, it shows an ugly and intolerant face to the extremists that I didn't want in my universe. It's possible to uphold the values of good and righteousness without stigmatizing good and righteous people who disagree with you. To discuss the modern world for a moment, it's necessary to make a distinction: while most Arabs are Muslims, it is not necessarily true that most Muslims are Arabs.

The terms aren't interchangeable. While I was greatly saddened by the events of 9/11, I can't say I was tremendously surprised. Arab extremists are marked by a petty vindictiveness that goes beyond all reasonable sense of proportion, and they take great pains to keep the fires of hatred stoked, lest they inadvertently die out.

This is true of extremists of all religions and cultures -- but because Islam gives it an institutional basis, it has a much stronger grip there.

Have you been happy with the sales volumes of your more recent works as e-books? We've heard mixed things about them?

Steven Goldin Novel It's still way too early to tell. I would naturally have loved to see sales in the tens of thousands of copies, but I'm trying to be realistic. The medium is still in its infancy. Gutenberg didn't sell that many copies of his Bible, either, and he had the PR of a major religion behind him.

Complicating things still further is the fact that the distribution and sales channels (not to mention publicity channels) are muddy at best. I'll need a broader base of information and a couple more years of data before I can start drawing conclusions. I will say that anyone who expects to make an overnight fortune on their ebooks is deluding themselves.

How did you get involved with the e-book revolution? Are you a big-time techy, or did Richard Curtis and chums sell you in on the idea?

When I established an Internet presence in the mid-90s, virtually all my books were out of print. I was getting nice comments from people who remembered them, and lots of queries about finding copies.

I write books in order to have them be read, but the economics of publishing said that, because I wasn't a best-selling author, it wasn't feasible for publishers to re-issue my books. The concept of electronic publishing came to mind, and I realized that a publisher didn't have to invest many thousands of dollars to keep a title alive.

I also realized that I was not the only author in this predicament; all I had to do was think of some of my own favorite writers who are all but unknown to today's readers. I started to think of forming my own publishing company to keep older works alive, a company that was sympathetic to authors and would give them a good break.

As I was researching all the business aspects, I happened across other people who'd been struck by the idea as well. Richard Curtis seemed to be on roughly 90% of the same wavelength as I was, so I figured I'd let him do the hard business work so I could spend more of my time on creating. I'd have done some things differently with my own company, but I believe he's trying hard.

Has your degree in Astronomy proved useful in the SF side of things?

Yes, in the sense that any rigorous discipline provides a framework and keeps you from going too far into the realm of lala-land, where you strain your readers' sense of disbelief to the point they throw your book across the room.

It's nice to be able to throw in some facts from time to time to ground your book. No, in the sense that I don't write "hard" sf, or stories where a technological/scientific mystery is at the center of the story.

I prefer to tell stories by taking interesting characters and placing them in challenging situations. As long as the situations aren't patently impossible (or even if they are, like ftl or time travel) I don't bother to sweat the details, any more than a mystery writer needs to be an auto mechanic before his characters can ride in a car.

Are you currently writing full time now, or are you still fitting in the odd day-job?

A little of both. Technically I'm not working at any other job (or at least not getting paid for it); a lot of my time, though, is being spent helping my wife (Mary Mason) and her business partner start their new high tech development firm and research lab, because in theory that will bring in so much money that I can then devote all my time to writing without worrying about financial details.

When and why did you begin writing? When did you first consider yourself a writer?

I began writing at age 13 because there were stories I wanted to tell. There were people and adventures living inside my mind, and I wanted to let them out and share them with the world. I sold my first story to Fred Pohl in 1965, and it made me feel pretty special -- but other than being able to brag at school, the full force of being a writer didn't hit me until the 1968 WorldCon in Berkeley, when Joanna Russ took me by the hand and brought me into the Galaxy Magazine party.

There I was, surrounded by people I'd loved all my life (Roger Zelazny, who'd just a couple of hours earlier won the Hugo for Lord of Light, brushed by me and asked me to excuse him!). That was when I realized I could become at least a lesser member of this exalted company.

How has becoming a published author impacted your lifestyle?

Aside: You just pushed one of my grammatical buttons. It hasn't "impacted" my life, though it has had an impact on it. It has *affected* my life. "Affected" is a perfectly fine, respectable word; more people should use it. But I digress.

It made me financially poorer almost literally overnight. Working as a civilian space scientist for the U.S. Navy's space program was boring as hell, but it paid well. Working as a full-time writer is seldom boring, but only a comparatively few superstars find it financially rewarding.

There are other rewards, of course -- the joy of knowing I've entertained someone or made them think about something they hadn't considered before, the small degree of fame I can have at a convention and then turn off when I get home, the knowledge that something I accomplished may live on after me. These are great rewards. It's just nice to know where the rent check will be coming from, too.

How do you see the future of science fiction literature in the 21st century?

There'll be a lot of changes, both good and bad. The advent of ebooks means more works will be published; the field will not rely on the taste of a handful of editors, or on what a publisher thinks will be economically feasible.

On the bad side, this means a lot more unedited garbage will see its way out into the marketplace; Sturgeon's Law will become an ultraconservative estimate.

It will be harder and harder for readers to wade through the junk to find something that really interests them, and the role of reviewers may actually take on more importance. This will also continue the fragmentation of the field.

It's already impossible for one person to keep up with everything that calls itself science fiction and fantasy; that impossibility will increase a hundredfold. Imaginative fiction will become a very large pond, but much more shallow. Readers can still have a common love for imaginative fiction, but fewer of them will have overlapping reading lists.

On the good side, works will be published that are daring and original, works that editors of mainstream houses would never take a chance on because they might not have a big enough audience. Look for some breathtaking, innovative work to emerge -- but you'll have to look very hard as you winnow through all the chaff.

Do you tend to read the work of many other SF/F authors?

It's one of the saddest truisms I know that you become an SF/F author because you love reading it, and once you start writing it you have less and less time to read it. I read as much of it as I can, but that's nowhere near as much as I'd like, or even as much as I should. I know I'm missing out on a lot, and that pains me.

What's your favourite SF/F movies and TV?

I think BABYLON 5 was probably the finest SF ever committed to film. I'm thoroughly addicted to BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER, even though I normally avoid the horror genre in general and vampire films in particular. BUFFY is really a comedy (with some very serious overtones) -- sort of the mirror-image of B5, now that I think of it, a serious show with very comic overtones.

Both shows feature characters I care deeply about, which is what I try to accomplish in my own writing. In film, I loved the original STAR WARS, Ep. IV (they've gone steadily downhill since), RAIDERS OF THE LOST ARK, 2001, the George Pal TIME MACHINE (haven't seen the new one yet) and THE 7 FACES OF DR. LAO. My most recent favorite is SHREK.

Do you (or did you) ever use an agent?

3 over the years. My first lasted only a year. I really wasn't at the point in my career where I could make it profitable, and we parted on amicable terms.

My second, Joseph Elder, was my agent for over 10 years; the only reason the relationship ended was that he left agenting for other pastures, and I wish him well because I consider him a friend. I've recently hooked up with Richard Curtis; the jury's still out there.

How long did you spend in rejection letter hell before you were first published?

Not very long as these things go. I started dabbling at age 13 (and most of it never got rejection letters because it was never finished or submitted anywhere) and sold first at 18. M

ost of the stuff in between was childish space opera type stuff. And then it was 3 years between my first and second sale, so the first was probably a fluke.

Did you always want to be a writer?

No. From birth through age 5, I didn't have much contact with works of literature other than my mother reading to me. From 5 through 13 I was very busy reading, but didn't give much thought to writing. It wasn't until the ripe old age of 13 that the idea of writing started consuming me.

Where, when, and how do you write?

I have a separate office. I try to do some writing every day between breakfast and lunch, and some more between lunch and dinner. I'm a slow worker; I know some people who can churn out rough draft like a fountain and then edit the hell out of it later. I think over every sentence before I type it, which slows my progress on rough draft considerably -- but then, my rough draft usually ends up being close to final. I usually only do 2, sometimes 3 drafts.

What are you reading now?

Nonfiction, for reference, THE JOYS OF YIDDISH by Leo Rosten; fiction, I'm just about to start Roger MacBride Allen's DEPTHS OF TIME.

Did you come up through the writing short-stories route, or did you get published in novel-form first?

Definitely short stories first. For many years I despaired I would ever be able to write a novel; the longest thing I was able to complete was about 10,000 words. Then something happened, as though a switch was flipped inside my mind, and now almost everything comes out novel-length. Even when I think something will be short, I start getting more interested in the characters, and I have to explain this factor over here, and the back story needs to be fleshed out, and before I know it I have a book.

I think I prefer it this way, because I generally only write about characters I care about, and when I do I want to write more about them.

If the Jade Darcy SF series was going to be made into a film, who would be your dream producers/actors for the role?

For producer/director, I think my first choice would be Joss Whedon becauase he can handle a strong -- and strongly conflicted -- heroine without losing sight of the humor in the situation. Joe Straczinsky would be a very, very close second choice, for much the same reason.

Neither man gets so involved in the melodrama that he loses sight of the comedy, which is so important. (And if you don't think comedy's important to a dramatic story, just look how dismal THE X-FILES is without Duchovny.)

To play Jade, I think we'd have to go with someone who's unknown, at least to Western audiences. We need a Japanese actress in her mid to late 20s who knows martial arts. I'm sure there are many fine women who fit that description, but I don't know their work.

For the other major human character, Megan Cafferty, Mary and I have a couple of favorites. One who'd do wonderfully and is well known is Oscar-winner Ellen Burstyn. Helen Mirren would be great, as would Dames Judy Dench and Diana Rigg.

But our first choice is a woman named Erica Slezak who works on the American soap opera "One Life To Live." She's won several Emmy Awards for her role, but I don't think she's well known abroad. (Unlike her father, Walter Slezak, who was a great character actor in films, or her grandfather whose first name I don't recall, who was a leading European director/conductor of operas.)

Ms. Slezak has the perfect look and attitude to do Megan justice. Almost everyone else in the books is an alien. SHREK has shown that we're just about at the point where we can do that convincingly in a movie.

Do you ever attend SF-cons, and what has your experience with them been?

I attend as many as I can afford; I hope to be at ConJose this year, since it's in my neighborhood.

My first marriage was a Saturday morning program item at the '72 WorldCon in Los Angeles. My second marriage took place the evening before a convention in Sacramento at which I was Guest of Honor. I love the excitement of cons, and I love interacting with fans. So far I've managed to avoid most of the bad experiences I've heard other writers talk about. Just lucky, I guess.

Would you ever consider writing in a different genre, or are you content with SF/F?

There are times I consider writing a mystery or a humorous novel, both of which I enjoy. But I have so much of my life invested in SF/F, and I have more ideas for those kinds of books than I'll ever have time to write as it is, that I think I'll probably end up staying around this field.

What are your hobbies?

I'm an afficianado of Broadway musicals, and have an extensive collection of albums. I have a large collection of board games (which I almost never get time to play any more). And I love word puzzles, both logic puzzles and the British cryptic crosswords. All very sedentary, I'm afraid.

What advice would you give to budding SF writers?

Write what you enjoy reading, not what you think will sell. If you're not entertaining yourself, you have less chance of entertaining your readers. And writing is hard enough work that it's not worth it unless you really enjoy what you're doing. (This assumes, of course, that you have demanding enough taste and standards that you yourself are not satisfied with masturbatory drivel.)

Are you from the 'writing tightly against a full outline school' or the 'make it up as you go along' school?

Sort of halfway in between. I think about the story in general for awhile, then plan out a chapter-by-chapter outline (usually only a sentence or two per chapter). This keeps me focused so I don't miss a major plot flaw along the way. The chapters may change around a bit -- for instance, if one becomes so long that it makes more sense to break it into two -- but this gives me a skeleton to work with. I then put more flesh on it as I write the actual book.

Do you consider yourself and your work quintessentially American?

I never gave it much thought, but I probably am. I'm more concerned with what happens than I am with the existential reasons for it. That's probably an American trait.

How much do you base your characters against people you actually know?

Not very much. I once "blew up" a banker who repossessed my car, but I only borrowed his name for that, not his personality. I know a few people who are so outstanding that they shaped a character, but normally my lead characters are people I'd *like* to meet, and the supporting characters are ones who fit more appropriately into the story I'm telling.

What other books do you have planned?

More Jade Darcy books with my wife, Mary Mason (some possible titles: Jaded Darcy: Run Out Of West; Jaded Darcy and the Finger of God; Jade Darcy and the Collapse of Galactic Civilization; Jade Darcy and the Blue Harvest; Jade Darcy and the Hostages of Lourr).

This summer there'll be a sequel to my earlier book MINDFLIGHT, called MINDSEARCH. I hope to do more of my "Deborah Rabinowitz" sf/mystery stories that have appeared in Analog.

I have my eyes on a galactic UN, and a different book where I smash together characters from the Swiss/French writer Delacorta with the lead character from Akira Kurasawa's SANJURO.

And there's a top-secret multi-book project that I hope to get out in a year or two that's likely to be controversial, and I can't talk about it prematurely because I don't want to start any lawsuits.

What kind of manuscript changes have been made to your published works?

I've been lucky in that no catastrophic changes have surprised me when a work came out -- but I did have to make some changes for editorial requirements that I wasn't happy with. The worst was my novel SCAVENGER HUNT. Because of its length, the publisher wanted it broken into 2 parts -- and I had to write a false ending for book 1 and a false beginning to book 2 to make each one look independent. I did it, but I wasn't happy. It's recently been republished electronically in a 1-volume format that I find much more satisfactory.

Of the feedback you have heard people come back on about your novels, what's your favorites?

The best was from a woman who'd been raped/abused in her youth, and said the Jade Darcy books helped her cope better with the feelings of anger she'd bottled up so long. Sometimes it *is* possible to make a positive difference in someone's life.

Then, of course, there was a British reader who took exception to the way I treated my female characters in the Family d'Alembert books. I guess he thought Smith had placed women on pedestals, while I gave them equal treatment. He said (and I quote) "You anger me, Mr. Goldin, with your modern views and your sick ways with women." Bill Rotsler did that up on a name badge for me.

What amount of research do you do for your books?

Usually, not nearly enough by most writers' standards, because I tend to be a bit lazy. I did a significant amount for the Parsina Saga, though; I read the entire 1001 Arabian Nights plus the Supplemental Nights, did a great amount of research on costumes, art, architecture, food and customs of the region, plus a goodly amount of exploration into Zoroastrian philosophy. One of my favorite precepts in their holy writings is "As much as you possibly can, do not bore your fellow man." There's an interesting commandment to live by.

Having written in both the SF and fantasy genres, what have you found the differences to be?

For me, writing fantasy requires a more formal style of storytelling, more eloquent language, dialog that's a little more stilted. It just sounds wrong in high fantasy to use a lot of slang. Now that the Parsina Sage is done (and don't get me wrong, I'm very proud of it), I'm just as happy to get back to science fiction where I can write in a more colloquial style that's far more comfortable for me.

How long does it take you to write a novel?

When I'm not distracted by such minor concerns as trying to earn a living at some other job and fighting off bill collectors, it takes me about 6 months to a year. I used to be faster in my youth -- but didn't we all?

What's your personal experience been with dealing the book publishing industry? We read Piers Anthony's biography recently, where he really slated it in great detail as a bunch of talentless, uncreative, money men. It was kind of an eye opener.

Piers has been successful enough to rise to a level where he actually deals with the talentless, uncreative, money men. I absolutely agree that the publishers don't care whether they're selling books or doorknobs, as long as they earn a profit.

The problems of their suppliers (the writers) are not their problems, and they simply don't care. An outstanding exception to this is Tom Doherty of Tor Books. Not only is he a shrewd businessman -- a successful publisher in SF for many decades -- but he also cares about books and authors. He knows books are very different from other commodities. He is a gentleman, and I feel privileged to know him. Not being as successful as Piers, I usually only deal with the lower-level people -- the editors.

These are people who get into the field because they love books. I've long been of the opinion that publishers hire the nicest, most sympathetic people they can find to be editors; this keeps the writers quieter, because we don't like snarling at nice people like these.

Then the publishers hire the meanest, nastiest, most rapacious lawyers and accountants they can find to squeeze every penny of profit out of the business. This lets the nice editors shrug and say, "I'm sorry, I can't do anything about your problem. It's the Accounting (or Legal) Department. But let's talk about your next book."

If you'd like a delicious portrait of the publishing world, read THE BESTSELLER by Olivia Goldsmith (the lady who also wrote THE FIRST WIVES' CLUB). She thoroughly skewers the industry -- although, as in all her books, karma actually works the way it should, unlike reality.

How did you land the E.E Doc Smith share-crop gig on the The Family d'Alembert Series?

Roger Elwood, who'd bought a number of my titles for the Laser Books line, was also a consulting editor for what was then Pyramid Books. Pyramid had been contacted by the Smith Estate to write a series of books based on Smith's original novella, "Imperial Stars."

Roger knew I was a good writer who could use the assignment, so he offered me the gig. To a young writer, a 10-book contract is hard to turn down.

What was it like playing in the same sand-pit as one the Greats?

Very strange. I'd of course read the Skylark and Lensman books, and had tremendous respect for the scope and excitement of the stories Smith could tell. But "Imperial Stars" wasn't in that league. It was done only a year or two before his death, and I think it was done hastily. For one thing, although Smith was known for his marvelous villains, the chief villain in the original story never appears onstage.

There were lots of inconsistencies and bad assumptions that I had to smooth out as best I could. But Smith had at least started on a canvas big enough to support a massive series. so I had that to work with.

Smith left no further plots, no further direction, although he obviously intended to do more with this universe. I tried to think on a scale grand enough to match his earlier works. "Imperial Stars" dealt with a plot to overthrow the Empire that had been growing for 60 years and, like a cancer, had enveloped an enormous percentage of the imperial heirarchy, yet it's all toppled in one novella.

How could I top that?

I finally decided that this massive plot was merely a feint, a diversion to take attention away from the real plot, one so big that it takes 9 more books to unravel.

I hoped that this would be a sort of homage to a writer who always constructed something bigger for the next step.

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